Gewehr 88 Model 1888 Commission Rifle

[kcw]

Lyle, To give you a point of reference to use with your casting, I measured the diameter of the back end of a Turk 98 Mauser chamber; comparable I think to the point indicated in your pic @ post #27. It looks like it should measure in the area of . 475" or so (I had some trouble getting the gauge in there). I'm guessing that a casting will show a measurement at that point your gun to be in the .375"-.400" area.

[kcw]

Beside the use of an "EZ Out" as previously mentioned, you can also make use of an appropriately sized machinist's tap. Screw it in enough to get a good bite (but not overly tight) on the inside of the broken casing, and pop it and the broken casing out with a rod from the muzzle.

[ldpfeifer]

I measured the 8mm Remington Mauser round at .467 to .427 at the shoulder. I used a tap, not sure of the size as it is not front of me, about .433 I believe. I only went in about 1/2 inch and tried to use a rod to push it out with no help. I screwed in a bolt and use a brass drift on the head lightly tapping with no results, mainly the angle in the chamber area. I need to get a rod of the proper size and try it from the barrel end to see if it will move. It has been soaking with PB max for 2 days. I will try again if I get time before I leave for work.
Lyle

[kcw]

I measured the 8mm Remington Mauser round at .467 to .427 at the shoulder. I used a tap, not sure of the size as it is not front of me, about .433 I believe. I only went in about 1/2 inch and tried to use a rod to push it out with no help. I screwed in a bolt and use a brass drift on the head lightly tapping with no results, mainly the angle in the chamber area. I need to get a rod of the proper size and try it from the barrel end to see if it will move. It has been soaking with PB max for 2 days. I will try again if I get time before I leave for work.
Lyle

I just did a bit of experimenting out in the garage with that Turk casing I mentioned before. My choice for a tap size reads "1/8 pipe" (seems well heavier than 1/8 to me, more like 3/8, but that's what it's stamped). You're dealing with a bore of not much more than .300". You may have to settle for a piece of .250 rod from the hardware store. I'd wrap it in electrical tape.

[kcw]

You previously mentioned the possibility of some sort of an "insert"? There is an 8mm/32cal rook round. I've never seen one, but all the rook style rounds I have seen are rimmed with straight or narrowly tapered cases. I'd think such a modification to an 1888 (never heard of such a thing) would require not only an insert, but also work on the bolt face and extractor. Moreover, I'd think that somebody going to all that trouble would have stamped the gun accordingly;, in fact the strict German proof laws through the end of WWII would have required reproofing with appropriate stamps being placed by the proofhouse. Those would then be civilian proof marks (not military) and would typically be on the underside of the barrel.

[kcw]

There is the 8.15x46mm which was very popular in Europe as a target round. Apparently you can refashion 30-30 cases to make the brass. Rifles should be stamped accordingly, especially if they were converted in some fashion from other calibers.

[kcw]

A modified German gun should have the civilian Crown/R stamp (reproof of modified or repaired arm) and the Crown/N stamp (Nitro proofed)

[kcw]

You may want to hold up and do your casting before doing anything else Lyle! I'm wondering if that 7.7mm-46-3.30-679 marking isn't a somewhat screwed up commercial cartridge designation. From what I've found the 8.15x46 round generally has a .321 (7.9mm) bullet, but I'm wondering if whomever made that stamp wanted people to know that the gun still had the .318 barrel? 7.9mm/46 might make sense, March, 1930, 679th gun proofed in that proof house that month. But where are the required German commercial "crown" proof stamps that should be on the barrel?

[Calif Steve]

The rear sight tell me somebody (non-military) has spent money on this rifle. Very likely you have a non-standard chamber. Interesting stuff, for sure.

[ldpfeifer]

I did try the 1/4 rod on a bolt that was threaded into the casing, or so I hope it is a casing, and tapped on it. There is a rough feel to the bottom of the chamber area. A broken cartridge?? I have had PB blaster sitting in this for 2 days. Everything is shiny clean but I notice as I drained the last of the PB out, some rust in the chamber area that was not there before. My understanding is they used Berdan(SP) primers which are corrosive if left unclean for long. I am not seeing any brass from the casing so I am now wondering would this be a steel casing, if it is a casing, and the rust from the corrosive nature of the primer coming from between the two metals? There are German crowns are on areas of the gun. It is stamped with the "S" marking, but under that is a CE. The chamber area and the heat shield cover are the same serial number and have the crown. I also saw another forum some information on the front sling ring that is stamped with numbers from the reserve unit this belonged to. I am going to try and take it to an old retired gun smith when I get back from my trip to see if he has any ideas too. Mean time, it is soaking with PB Blaster for the next 4 days. Keeping my fingers crossed......again, thanks for all the ideas and help.
Lyle

[kcw]

Lyle, I'm starting to think that your rifle may have been surplused off after WWI and converted into a 8.15x46 target rifle, possibly by drilling out the 8x57 chamber and installing a 8.15x46 insert; affixed in place by one of the several methods(pressing, pinning, ect.) employed to insured that the insert stays put. If all they did was to install an insert, ALL of the original military markings would remain but there would also be an added set of commercial markings (commercial proof marks are different than military marks). German proof marks are meant to tell a story about what's been done to the gun. Your PB blaster may be leeching out rust that's formed between an insert and the original chamber wall. I'm curious as to why that paper has been jammed into the magazine well. Has the GI follower system been disabled or possibly even removed, and the paper compacted into the well to keep brass from falling in there? Such a "modification" would make complete sense if the rifle is converted to a single shot target rifle. Also the substitution of the old "roller coaster" rear sight, which I believe is more adjustable than the standard 88 sight, might be a logical addition on a civilian target gun. I would suggest that you cease attempts to remove anything until you can figure what going on for certain. If the gun has been converted, I'd hate to see you ruin the chamber and render the gun useless!

[Calif Steve]

kcw has nailed it. Be very careful about this chamber. Also, you might a post a picture or two on Milsurps.com, in the Mauser section . They have several excellent Germans, who know their Mausers very well, they can help. Good luck.

[RCS]

I use to load 8,15x46R or some call it 7,7x46R for old German single shot rifles, there are variations in the bore diameters, most that I loaded for use .311 dia bullets.

I used both Remington and Winchester 30-30 brass and RCBS dies, I had to reduce the rim diameter on the 30-30 brass and reduce the length too.

One thing I noticed is that the 8.15x46R rim will not fit my G33/40 bolt face, it would appear that both the extractor and diameter of the bolt face would have to be
altered to fit the 8.15x46R case head, you might check your bolt ?

[ldpfeifer]

Some of the pictures of the cast chamber. I also removed the barrel with very little trouble.
Some measurements of the casting -VS- 8mm cartridge....
BASE Cast .421 8mm .465
Shoulder before angle Cast .348 8mm .426
Length of cartridge Cast 1.822 8mm 1.852
Middle picture is bottom 30-30, casting, and AK round. Any more ideas on this thing????
Lyle

[kcw]

If you do a search for "8.15x46r, armslist.com" you'll find external dimensions for a factory loaded round.