The Sissification of the Service Rifle- time to vent.

[Bill D]

On this one, I gotta agree with John.

[30shtur]

I was not born with 20-20 vision, I have to wear corrective lenses. They didn't enlarge the targets for me to help my vision. Rather than whin and ask for special accommodations, I just worked harder and set the range record at Okinawa in 1973.
Some people will work to overcome hurdles. Some people can work hard but never be able to overcome hurdles with their life altered handicaps. Some people will never work to overcome anything, they'll demand accommodations for their lazy ways.
The NRA needs to help some, but not bend over backwards for all.

[Hunter]

Everything started going downhill when they took away our M-1s and they gave us those wussy M-14s.

And they've labelled you a Junior Member?!? %^) H.

[carym2a]

And they've labelled you a Junior Member?!? %^) H.

It really started with the M1903 being replaced with that dang new fangled M1 thingy

[Col. Colt]

What bugs me about the Mouseguns being the "top dog" is that the could not do it if they had to load magazine fed length rounds for 600 yards. Single Loading went out with the Trapdoor Springfield. gents - until we just had to use the M16 in competition. So we gave it a Mulligan with bogus, fabricated totally NOT SERVICE RIFLE ammo, so it could compete against the .30 cals. Let's try it with all magazine length combat ammo, folks - and see how the M16 does at range.

Then we found out it didn't have enough range and penetration in the Middle East and so now we have "Dedicated Marksmen" in every Platoon, carrying an M14 - to make up for the Mousegun's deficencies. The WWII Infantry Platoon with it's Mix of weapons beats McNamara's "one gun does it all" idea all hollow. And we just rediscovered that. CC

[Maury Krupp]

Actually the issued mag length 77gr Mk262Mod1 does fairly well at 600yd. Not as well as an extra-long 80gr in a switchy wind but well enough if you can keep up. It's what nearly all the teams use for Infantry Trophy.

As for the old "When .30cal hits them they stay hit" vs "One 5.56 hit is better than two .30cal misses" and all variations of the same, that's a tune that's kept the merry-go-round running for almost a half-century

Like it or not, the Cartridge, Caliber 5.56mm, in all it's iterations is the current Service Cartridge for the vast majority of riflemen in the military. That we dinosaurs get to play with .30cal just proves that Service Rifle competition is a game and not combat (or even quasi-combat )

Maury

[dcat]

I am glad to see most of the other folks at my club have decided, like me, to start from standing for Sitting and Rapid Fire Prone for the 200 yard matches.

They groused a little when I showed up for the C&R bolt match with my AR, and DQ me when I had the high score. Did not matter to me. I will gladly pay $5 for someone to pull my target for SR practice!

dcat

[Griff Murphey]

Why don't you show up at a muzzle loading match with a Remington 700 with a scope? Of course the C&R bolt gunners DQ'd you. You act like they should have counted your score...

I think this entire thread has the stink of juvenile selfishness, frankly. You guys should respect the older shooters. Most of you act like they are an inconvenience to you and you want them gone. I remember watching some guys in their late 80's trying to shoot 600 yards one time in a registered match and being miffed at their slow shooting. Then I was reminded how old they were. I guess my generation was all wet. We were raised to respect seniors.

[John Kepler]

I respect my elders, and I respect the sport as well. I will not sanction destroying one in a misguided attempt to "respect" the other. Besides Griff.....I've reached that point in life where I too qualify as "old", and resent the NRA destroying a sport I love and using me as the excuse. If you can't run with the Big Dawgs, stay on the porch!

[Griff Murphey]

The eloquent phrase, oft used by the Brits: "...so beneath contempt that it is not worthy of a reply..." comes to mind.

[dcat]

Just so you understand, I paid my $5 and kept my mouth shut. I knew the match director was going to unload on me a little. I have known him for years and he would have found a reason to gig me anyway. I am the perpetual "newbie" at the match and take the ribbing because I can. When I am on the line, I have a job to do and banter is not going to keep me from it.

Three of my friends shot 22s (513-T, M44US and ??) and one of them won the match. Does not matter to me that these rifles are not real C&R (by our match rules they need to be issued military bolt action rifles in original centerfire caliber with original sights). What matters is we all had fun and I got some practice in.

I do not know how "Did not matter to me. I will gladly pay $5 for someone to pull my target for SR practice!" got interpreted as disrespect.

[Jim in Salt Lake]

I'm going to hit 58 in a couple of months, does that make me "elder?" Doesn't feel that way but focusing at 600 yards is iffy. At times, I'm jealous of my older friends who can see now that they've had cataract surgery. I shot in a leg match last Saturday, my first in probably 20 years as a favor to a friend who needs 2 points to leg out. Unfortunately, he had three saved rounds at 300 yards. That allowed me to win and get my first six leg points. Now I'm thinking, gee, if I can hit enough leg matches, could I actually leg out by the time I turn 60? On good days, with the light right (like last Saturday), I can perform and stay in the game. On the days when I can't, them's the breaks, and aiming turns to guessing. And I absolutely miss the standing to prone/sitting in the NRA matches. I don't know what the fix(es) are to increase participation in NRA highpower but something needs to happen. At Camp Perry, there were ~450 attending NRA week and ~1500 at CMP week.

[fredtheobviouspseudonym]

. . . an old Marine telling me about back in his day the old timers carried on about losing their 1903s and having to carry the ugly a$$ gas operated mess called the M1.

IIRC Hatcher's Notebook had a comment on how the old pros, confronted with the new issue rifle, snorted that that short-barreled aberration could never replace a real man's rifle like the Krag!

[Plain Old Dave]

Actually, I would rather shoot a Krag than an M1903 XTC. The M1901 sight is an M1905 without the thumbwheel to adjust for windage, and the Ray-Vin micrometer works just as well for precise elevation. (of course, the truly sporting Krag shooter will scrounge up an H. M. Pope Krag Skirmish Sight Adjuster) The longer, heavier barrel hangs better offhand and the muzzle blast and recoil are nowhere nearly as brutal with a Krag. Rapid Krag reloading is an artform; position your second 5 like they would lay in a charger/stripper, scoop 'em up and drop 'em in the gate. With practice you can do it as fast as reload an 1903 on the line. Townsend Whelen actually preferred Krags til well after WW1. I have occasionally thought of taking 100 pieces of once-fired Krag brass, my trusty Lee Loader, Krag, 1000 Large Rifle primers, a 5 pound can of IMR 4895 and a pile of 150gr RN bullets to NRA week just to be ornery.

[PhillipM]

How do the 150 round noses do at 600 yards?