New York's New Abortion Law

[Sandpebble]

Well Vern... I'm with you on this..... after all, considering Dryheats statement.... there are three of us here constantly accused by the ignorant of being Nazi ...

[blackhawknj]

I you want to see unwanted children, spend some time in a college financial aid office, especially a state or local one. All the divorced children are asked where's the financial aid disclosure form from their fathers.
"My parents divorced when I was --- years old and we never heard from him again."

[Vern Humphrey]

I you want to see unwanted children, spend some time in a college financial aid office, especially a state or local one. All the divorced children are asked where's the financial aid disclosure form from their fathers.
"My parents divorced when I was --- years old and we never heard from him again."

And the guy asking the question them pulls a gun and shoots the kid in the head, right? 'Cause it's better to be dead than to be an unwanted child, right?

As I pointed out earlier, what you're talking about is a male abortion -- a man abandoning his parental responsibilities.

[blackhawknj]

Why should a man-or anyone else-be responsible for someone else's decisions ? Forcing people to take responsibility for what they have no control over.....?

[Vern Humphrey]

Why should a man-or anyone else-be responsible for someone else's decisions ? Forcing people to take responsibility for what they have no control over.....?

Ahhh -- how does a man who fathers a child have no control over the outcome?

[blackhawknj]

If the mother can destroy it without so much as a "by your leave" from the father/sperm donor, I would say he has no role in the decision making process and cannot be held responsible for the outcome.

[togor]

If the mother can destroy it without so much as a "by your leave" from the father/sperm donor, I would say he has no role in the decision making process and cannot be held responsible for the outcome.

You know that argument reflects both ways. If the guy disappears upon receiving the news, then one can expect that might be a factor in whether a woman decides to go through with a pregnancy or not.

Let's say that SCOTUS decides that the Constitution is mute on the subject of abortion, leaving the matter to the states. That makes for a very compelling landscape. Some states will band the procedure completely, with no exceptions, choosing to err to the side of pregnancy-related death of the woman. Other states will take a more liberal view of the situation. What then of the pregnant women in banned states? Will there be interstate commerce in the procedure? Womb police in the banned states? A law that all miscarriages must be reported to the authorities for investigation? Divorce laws got changed originally because a rich and powerful guy wanted a newer model. Somehow I have a feeling that even in the banned states, wealthy families (say a wayward daughter after a lost weekend in Cabo) will have their workarounds. And once again, liberty is shown to be wonderful, if you can pay for it.

[jdmcgrath]

Banning something just creates a black market, makes criminals out of decent people. Guns, booze, no different.

[Vern Humphrey]

If the mother can destroy it without so much as a "by your leave" from the father/sperm donor, I would say he has no role in the decision making process and cannot be held responsible for the outcome.

I disagree A homicidal maniac could break into your home and massacre your entire family. A drunk driver could run over one of your children. If something like that doesn't happen, does that leave you with no responsibility toward your wife and children?

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Banning something just creates a black market, makes criminals out of decent people. Guns, booze, no different.

Again, I ask if banning rape or murder creates a black market? The fact that some people will violate the law doesn't mean there should be NO law.

[jdmcgrath]

Not aware of a big rape & murder legalization push. Abortions are high, about 1/6 of known pregnancies. If all those babies get born then better raise the minimum wage a lot so the daddy sticks around. Or give out free rubbers and pills.

[Vern Humphrey]

Not aware of a big rape & murder legalization push. Abortions are high, about 1/6 of known pregnancies. If all those babies get born then better raise the minimum wage a lot so the daddy sticks around. Or give out free rubbers and pills.

Of course there's a big murder legalization push! In New York, you can now murder a child just as it's head crowns!!

And please explain how raising the minimum wage will make daddy stick around!

[togor]

More money for diapers and baby formula can't hurt. Kids take money, do they not? Remembering Barney Frank's quote about life beginning at conception and ending at birth. Sounds like you agree.

[blackhawknj]

The version I have seen is that conservatives think life begins at conception and the government's responsibility ends at birth. Liberals think it's the other way around.

[togor]

Well once upon a time a guy with a HS education (not even a A student) could graduate and get a good union job in a plant and make enough money to raise 5 kids and have grandkids by 45. Those jobs are mostly gone now but no one can tell me that people contemplating kids don't think about where the money is coming from. These days most HS grads with no skills are looking at $10/hr and maybe some health benefits, and maybe not. The low wage economy that Vernon likes so much (keeps his costs down) is definitely a factor on some abortions. People just don't see how they can make it. And yeah, money fights end marriages.

[Vern Humphrey]

The version I have seen is that conservatives think life begins at conception and the government's responsibility ends at birth. Liberals think it's the other way around.

I think you're wrong there -- if you look to government to accomplish anything, you have to remember that it was government that created the mess we're in. On the other hand, we have a vigorous program here to find foster parents and provide care for kids who need it. The Knights of Columbus fund several scholarships every year.