More liberal suppression of conservatives

[S.A. Boggs]

So when a gun is recovered at a crime scene, the owner "of record" will have SOME explaining to do. (Quite possibly at around 3AM, just after his door has been smashed in by ATF agents.) Profit margin must be astronomical to run this risk.

Remember gun control is PEOPLE CONTROL plain and simple. People control is political power and political power is TOTAL CONTROL. All one needs to look at is Iran and yes this is religious control as well. National Socialists want people control to continue to force their agenda of senseless being.
Disregarding one's religion humans exist on three plains of Id [basic animal instinct i.e. the will to survive], Ego [socialization-the ability to live in harmony], Super-ego [opening the door for someone]. Two many in America are living in the Id phase of existence to the detriment of all others. Not taking personal responsibility for one's actions and some in our society are acceptance and enabling of this.
Nature abhors a vacuum, if good goes out evil replaces it, now some people are even doubting the existence of "evil" as a "religious" ideation. The Catholic Pope has now come out that Hell is not real! Death is real to all at some point in our life, some people are dead as the live a miserable existence of hate.
Sam

[togor]

So when a gun is recovered at a crime scene, the owner "of record" will have SOME explaining to do. (Quite possibly at around 3AM, just after his door has been smashed in by ATF agents.) Profit margin must be astronomical to run this risk.

That doesn't seem to happen very often.

[togor]

Remember gun control is PEOPLE CONTROL plain and simple. People control is political power and political power is TOTAL CONTROL. All one needs to look at is Iran and yes this is religious control as well. National Socialists want people control to continue to force their agenda of senseless being.
Disregarding one's religion humans exist on three plains of Id [basic animal instinct i.e. the will to survive], Ego [socialization-the ability to live in harmony], Super-ego [opening the door for someone]. Two many in America are living in the Id phase of existence to the detriment of all others. Not taking personal responsibility for one's actions and some in our society are acceptance and enabling of this.
Nature abhors a vacuum, if good goes out evil replaces it, now some people are even doubting the existence of "evil" as a "religious" ideation. The Catholic Pope has now come out that Hell is not real! Death is real to all at some point in our life, some people are dead as the live a miserable existence of hate.
Sam

About a year ago I posted about, to an overwhelming "meh" here, the story of a handgun used to kill a high ranking Chicago PD official. They traced it back to Wisconsin, to a guy who supplemented his income as an unlicensed gun dealer. He worked a circuit of gun shops, buying 10's of handguns each year, which he sold elsewhere in the state in FTF sales. The gun in question changed hands once or twice more before heading south of the state line. If one is going to put the subject of guns in the context of God and the Devil, etc., then I wonder if there is room for the idea that a man is also his brother's keeper, and that the choice to do nothing at all about guns--because it's only blacks in Chicago or St. Louis killing each other--may not find favor in the eyes of God.

[S.A. Boggs]

About a year ago I posted about, to an overwhelming "meh" here, the story of a handgun used to kill a high ranking Chicago PD official. They traced it back to Wisconsin, to a guy who supplemented his income as an unlicensed gun dealer. He worked a circuit of gun shops, buying 10's of handguns each year, which he sold elsewhere in the state in FTF sales. The gun in question changed hands once or twice more before heading south of the state line. If one is going to put the subject of guns in the context of God and the Devil, etc., then I wonder if there is room for the idea that a man is also his brother's keeper, and that the choice to do nothing at all about guns--because it's only blacks in Chicago or St. Louis killing each other--may not find favor in the eyes of God.

You raise good point, now answer this please. Evil has been since the first murder and has/will continue. Today it is with firearms, what about spears, arrows, swords, rope, rock, clubs. The reality is that the tool used is not live, has no reasoning ability, just a "thing" nothing more. The HUMAN IS THE WEAPON, not the tool used. "Am I my brother's keeper?" could be construed as making a female less? God gave Moses the 10 Commandments to take back to the Hebrews who Moses was the leader of. The 10 Commandments are found in the Old Testament and are good to follow. Now comes along God, my Creator, in human form to bear my sin's on the Cross so I won't have to...this is total love. Christ, being perfect, took the 10 Commandments of God and distilled it further to the Golden Rule. The very same Rule that I taught to my client's in this form "DON'T DO ANYTHING TO ANYONE ELSE YOU DON'T WANT DONE TO YOU!" The most thick headed can understand this concept, religion aside.
I am a Christian, I fail everyday at it and readily admit it...no excuse I fail. I am a miserable at being a Christian, I am a True Believer of HIM!
Sam

[lyman]

Hi Lyman,

First off I can agree with the general principle that if our freedoms are only contingent on nobody abusing them, then we won't have any at all. So yes, part of freedom is freedom to f*ck up and face the consequences. And I suppose the gang bangers can blow each other to bits for all we care, but they shoot a lot of Innocents along the way. When the damage starts being collateral, then sometimes the rest of us have something to say.

I like the point about root causes and symptoms. Some root cause leads the bangers to want guns and abuse them in heinous ways. But this can't be to say that the guns (and the ease with which the gang-bangers get them) is completely immaterial to the subject of life and death any more than the pills are with the opioid crisis in Appalachia.

To use a medical analogy, the underlying issue for the patient may be a weakened immune system from poor nutrition, age, chemo, etc. The immediate symptoms are high fever and a raging infection from a bacterium normally harmless to healthy people. Do we not treat the symptoms to buy time while we work on the root cause? Maybe we can't, because the medication has side effects. But usually we want to try.

Bringing it back to the OP, had the princess bothered to give one tenth as much thought to this as you and I have before she tweeted, then she probably keeps her crown.

yet you don't see the same issues in Appalachia, re firearms,

big difference in the culture, which is a big part of the inner city violence

[lyman]

So when a gun is recovered at a crime scene, the owner "of record" will have SOME explaining to do. (Quite possibly at around 3AM, just after his door has been smashed in by ATF agents.) Profit margin must be astronomical to run this risk.

here is how a trace works,


lets say togor goes wacko and robs the local store,

police find the gun on the curb

hopefully someone inthe forensics dept can read a serial number, make, and model

they submit it to nics to see if it is stolen, then call\email\whatever the tracing center,

that SCCY used , means SCCY is pinged with serial number
SCCY says they shipped that gun to Lipsey's,
Lipsey's is pinged and says they sold it to Clintonhater's Gunshop and Gift Emporium
Clintonhater then has to dig thru his records (4473's) and let the tracing center know who it went to,

at this point if it was togor, an ATF agent, compliance guy, or State Police may come by for the original (Clintonhater best be making a copy for his records)4473, and bill of sale if available

now if RED was the actual buyer, and had reported the gun stolen, or sold to Sam , then they will ask if a report was filed for the stolen, (may not be required, may have been filed, or RED may not know until they come asking)
if sold to Sam, then the folks will want to know whatever info they can get about Sam, address etc (which is why it is good to do a bill of sale)
etc etc,



no helicopters,
no doors being knocked down at 3am
you dog will likely not be shot,


unless this is the 20th time they have run a trace that was connected to you,, then maybe, after a set up or observation,
or the good old , ooops , we meant to kick in the door across the street,,,



now, if that gun was a used gun that has traded hands 11 times over the years,, then it will likely never make it past the 3rd step,,,

[togor]

yet you don't see the same issues in Appalachia, re firearms,

big difference in the culture, which is a big part of the inner city violence

Yes, it's true. But in Appalachia, for some reason, they gobble Oxy like Tic Tacs. Different regions have different susceptibilities.

[S.A. Boggs]

yet you don't see the same issues in Appalachia, re firearms,

big difference in the culture, which is a big part of the inner city violence

This is true to some degree, we have our own problems. Problems that are being reinforced by black drug dealers from Columbus, Cleveland, Detroit. I single out black as they are 90% of what is coming here to sell the poison here. They are also bringing their violence with them and murdering in the black community. The black community is not having any of this and have been "marching" to stop the violence. Local police are doing their best but the lure of money and limited resources means it is safer to deal drugs here in Appalachia.
Sam

[togor]

Lyman, it's pretty much impossible to read your description of how traces work, and conclude that it wouldn't be possible to improve that process quite a bit (while reducing costs at the same time) in this electronic age, to help interdict illegal gun commerce while imposing little to no additional inconvenience on law-abiding gun owners. But everyone knows why this will meet resistance, and this was what I was getting at when I first raised the point.

- - - Updated - - -

This is true to some degree, we have our own problems. Problems that are being reinforced by black drug dealers from Columbus, Cleveland, Detroit. I single out black as they are 90% of what is coming here to sell the poison here. They are also bringing their violence with them and murdering in the black community. The black community is not having any of this and have been "marching" to stop the violence. Local police are doing their best but the lure of money and limited resources means it is safer to deal drugs here in Appalachia.
Sam

Actually pharma is shipping their Oxy to the region. The heroin and synthetic fentanyl might make the trip down there in the rocker panel of a Ford Taurus, but the Oxy goes straight to the pharmacies where local docs prescribe it into the community by the bucket-load. Good piece on this in the Washington Post.

I also notice that you're determined to blame the locals in the case of those on the receiving end of an illegal gun trade, but the outsiders in the case of the opioid problem. So personal responsibility applies if you live in a urban sh*thole overrun by guns, but not a rural mountain one overrun by drugs? Actually I think both communities have something in common: poor regions that the rest of the country hardly gives a crap about, except at election time, when someone wants their votes.

[S.A. Boggs]

Lyman, it's pretty much impossible to read your description of how traces work, and conclude that it wouldn't be possible to improve that process quite a bit (while reducing costs at the same time) in this electronic age, to help interdict illegal gun commerce while imposing little to no additional inconvenience on law-abiding gun owners. But everyone knows why this will meet resistance, and this was what I was getting at when I first raised the point.

- - - Updated - - -



Actually pharma is shipping their Oxy to the region. The heroin and synthetic fentanyl might make the trip down there in the rocker panel of a Ford Taurus, but the Oxy goes straight to the pharmacies where local docs prescribe it into the community by the bucket-load. Good piece on this in the Washington Post.

Locally we have had our "pill mills" run by unethical doctors. Most recently in Portsmouth and again in Eastern, Ky. This is nothing new as we have had this problem since the late 1960's just like the rest of America. I have been in the trench's fighting this since then from physically working an o.d. to trying to keep people from restarting their addiction. It is not easy to tell a family member that their loved one is dead...I personally know as I have had to do it!
I wish I had an answer and those with more education have none as well. Easy, quick money is the driving force to addiction. There are two places that are successfully fighting drug addiction and still have problems due to money. 17 years ago locally we had a dealer who was advised to not come back, he did to sell more of his poison. This black 23 year old drug dealing thug from Detroit was found one morning sitting in his expensive sports car, a large bag of drugs on the passenger seat and a .22 projectile behind his left ear into his brain. No one saw anything, no one heard anything, no shell casing found...just one dead dealer. The case is still open and I doubt that the person who did the public service will be found.
Sam

[clintonhater]

So personal responsibility applies if you live in a urban sh*thole overrun by guns, but not a rural mountain one overrun by drugs?

It applies equally to BOTH. But there is this difference: the liberal establishment, including the medical profession, is now telling dope heads "it's not YOUR fault!" Good heavens, no, you're merely an innocent VICTIM of the satanic drug-makers!" With that message constantly broadcast by pandering doctors & politicians, why would dope heads be troubled by any consideration of personal responsibility? Being victims, they can't be in any way responsible for their own choices!

[Vern Humphrey]

It applies equally to BOTH. But there is this difference: the liberal establishment, including the medical profession, is now telling dope heads "it's not YOUR fault!" Good heavens, no, you're merely an innocent VICTIM of the satanic drug-makers!" With that message constantly broadcast by pandering doctors & politicians, why would dope heads be troubled by any consideration of personal responsibility? Being victims, they can't be in any way responsible for their own choices!

I made my own choice:

Wounded

My fatigues are wet with blood
My bones stick through my skin
I hope I never feel
That awful thirst again!

All alone on the hillside
Scrambling frantically back
And the acrid smoke greets me
When I enter my blasted track

The smoke within my track
Makes it black as night
I have to get my radios working
I have a battle to fight!

I am alone in the command post
But when I don’t know what to do
Someone standing behind me
Speaks a word or two

My left arm will not work
I feel nauseating pain
Blood drips on my radio,
I wipe it off again.

Hurling grenades out the hatch
They go bouncing down the hill
Someone is screaming tien lien
Amazingly loud and shrill

They penetrate our position!
I have to kill a man
Then back to my radios
And my real job again

The shooting dies away
The Colonel comes flying in
Orders me onto his helicopter
And flies me out again

We touch down at the aid station
I am completely spent
Someone holds me up
As I stagger to the tent

They stitch and patch me up
And put on a cast
I sit and suffer silently
Until they’re done at last

I throw the pain pills away
I know about that trap!
I’m not about to get hooked
On that awful crap.

At HQ a message waits
I learn my father just died
While I struggle with this thing
The Colonel is at my side.

“We have no replacements
Can you go back again?”
I silently nod in the affirmative
I cannot leave my men.

[S.A. Boggs]

It applies equally to BOTH. But there is this difference: the liberal establishment, including the medical profession, is now telling dope heads "it's not YOUR fault!" Good heavens, no, you're merely an innocent VICTIM of the satanic drug-makers!" With that message constantly broadcast by pandering doctors & politicians, why would dope heads be troubled by any consideration of personal responsibility? Being victims, they can't be in any way responsible for their own choices!

Druggies who REPEATEDLY O.D. should not be helped, it is their choice. It is their life choice, let them finish their trip as they don't care!
Sam

[lyman]

Yes, it's true. But in Appalachia, for some reason, they gobble Oxy like Tic Tacs. Different regions have different susceptibilities.

yet the discussion was gun restrictions for us to help the crime in Chitcago,


I have folks in the country, drugs are an issue, but no one is gang banging out on the farm or in the small town

[lyman]

Lyman, it's pretty much impossible to read your description of how traces work, and conclude that it wouldn't be possible to improve that process quite a bit (while reducing costs at the same time) in this electronic age, to help interdict illegal gun commerce while imposing little to no additional inconvenience on law-abiding gun owners. But everyone knows why this will meet resistance, and this was what I was getting at when I first raised the point.

- - - Updated - - -



Actually pharma is shipping their Oxy to the region. The heroin and synthetic fentanyl might make the trip down there in the rocker panel of a Ford Taurus, but the Oxy goes straight to the pharmacies where local docs prescribe it into the community by the bucket-load. Good piece on this in the Washington Post.

I also notice that you're determined to blame the locals in the case of those on the receiving end of an illegal gun trade, but the outsiders in the case of the opioid problem. So personal responsibility applies if you live in a urban sh*thole overrun by guns, but not a rural mountain one overrun by drugs? Actually I think both communities have something in common: poor regions that the rest of the country hardly gives a crap about, except at election time, when someone wants their votes.

atf is restricted in one way, they cannot supposedly digitize the records from older closed shops,
I was told they have to search by hand thru the records,

not sure if that is entirely true or not,

did talk to one compliance guy, now retired, that had to go thru the records to help settle and close out an estate of a guy we both knew that kilt himself,
he had a double handful of NFA and they were trying to get it all straight,

fortunately, most had gone thru Dad's shop (the one I own now under a different FFL\SOT) ,
I turned in all our Bound Books, as well as copies of every NFA gun sold (not required, but we did it for a good reason, the NFA registry is screwed up)
so the ATF compliance guy was able to backtrace a most of it .


funny thing is , the ATF called me a month after we turned over the bound books and 4473's and wanted me to trace a pistol,

lady got right hot when I told here there was no way I could, she cut me off telling me I had to or she would call the agents to come by,,

I said go ahead, the guys at the RVA field office picked the records up a month ago, they might still be in the office,

she stopped cold, apologized, and then called the office and raised hell (the compliance guy mentioned this to me on the next inspection)




as far as better, likely there are ways to make it easier,
however, it is also the gov't, they typically don't work easier,, and also, how many traces go cold?
how many are prosecuted ??

and of course, at what cost to our rights?


better to spend the efforts enforcing and preventing,, as in put the horse back in front of the cart