Replay of the 1960's???

[clintonhater]

What's your problem with the arrest?

My problem would be, why was he being arrested at all for running a stop sign, which I do every single day, usually several times a day, if no other car is at the intersection? (For the same reason I refuse to wear a mask--it's stupid, & the practice of unnecessary stupidity is detrimental to mental health.) Did he fail to stop when the cops tried to pull him over? That might justify an arrest, but even so, why must every minor police action be turned into a 3-alarm cluster-f? Look at the houses in the neighborhood--does it look like a gang infested slum, with gang-bangers threatening to overwhelm the cops?

[clintonhater]

Who is the "winner" here? I see nothing but the blacks being the losers here and for generations to come.

I saw an interview with one black business-owner literally sobbing after his store was burned out. Was saying he'd put every cent he had & could borrow into setting up his store, & what was he going to do now? How could the rioters not have known he was one of "them"?

[Vern Humphrey]

I saw an interview with one black business-owner literally sobbing after his store was burned out. Was saying he'd put every cent he had & could borrow into setting up his store, & what was he going to do now? How could the rioters not have known he was one of "them"?

Why would they care? There is no logic to a riot.

[togor]

why must every minor police action be turned into a 3-alarm cluster-f?

That's the $64,000 question.

[rayg]

There is bodycam footage on the web but harder to find (sorry don't have a link right now) that does a better job of capturing the tension. The driver has how many guns drawn on him, is clearly terrified as are his family and neighbors that one of these cops is about to shoot him. One cop is shouting at him over and over to approach the police, guns drawn. You do know that this is the #1 way to get shot by cops, right? So he stayed put until someone finally got a clue and they approached. Think about that for a second: the guy who supposedly is in the wrong here and clearly in mortal fear for his life nonetheless is the one who comes to the correct strategy before all of the officers who supposedly are trained for such moments. To see nothing to complain about here strikes me as the classic bureaucratic attitude in the face of public dissastisfaction--we're fine with our procedures, the public can go pound sand. This is why people don't like bureaucrats either, sometimes even less than cops.

Added: hey, here's a thought--how about as a training exercise, we make officers play the script of non-cooperative civilians subject to arrest, except the arresting officers are required to have live rounds chambered and point them as they would in an actual arrest. The disquieting sensation of staring down a half-dozen live barrels might help cops feel a little empathy. Just the possibility of an accident should make someone nervous.

The guy didn't stop his car and kept driving..That alerts a cop that something is wrong. He stayed in his car after it was stopped for a long time..Another alert..Apparently those things alerted the officer that there might be more wrong then just blowing a stop sign. And he called for back up and a lot of officers responded. The mother threw herself on him to prevent the police taking him. Doesn't that maybe ring a bell that indicates that there could be then just a traffic stop like maybe there was a warrant out for him. Again the guy didn't stop, failed to get out of the car.
If it was just a normal traffic stop, the cop would have just walked up to the driver and ask for DL..There was something more to the stop.........You don't know the full story beyond the arrest..

[rayg]

My problem would be, why was he being arrested at all for running a stop sign, which I do every single day, usually several times a day, if no other car is at the intersection?

Do you steal or shop lift when no one is looking or around also? Sounds like you think that laws don't apply to you cause you're special and the signs were only for other people to obey..

My experience as a police officer is at lot of the stop sign accidents I attended most were caused by someone intentionally not stopping and just blowing through a familiar stop sign he knew was there and it was probably near his home and he just didn't feel like stopping....My pastor and close friend, when he was driving would blow stop signs all the time while I was in the car. Always hated to ride with him.

[togor]

Ray they're clearly terrified of being the victims of a police shooting. You're telling me no one should ever fear for their lives when dealing with the police? Ever?

[clintonhater]

Do you steal or shop lift when no one is looking or around also? Sounds like you think that laws don't apply to you cause you're special..

An idiotic comparison. If "special" means being smart enough to judge when there's no legitimate REASON to do a thing, such as come to a full stop when the intersection is empty, I plead guilty. Watch what most cops do in the same situation. Having a PERFECT driving record over the last 50 yrs suggests my judgment isn't too far off base.

[clintonhater]

The guy didn't stop his car and kept driving..That alerts a cop that something is wrong. He stayed in his car after it was stopped for a long time..Another alert..Apparently those things alerted the officer that there might be more wrong then just blowing a stop sign.

OK, I agree those facts change the situation. The driver was an idiot not to pull over immediately, & compounded that mistake by staying in the car.

[rayg]

[QUOTE=togor;584114] Ray they're clearly terrified of being the victims of a police shooting. You're telling me no one should ever fear for their lives when dealing with the police? Ever?


Togor...Ray they're clearly terrified of being the victims of a police shooting.

Ray ..and you personally/actually know that in this case

Togor..You're telling me no one should ever fear for their lives when dealing with the police? Ever?

Ray...When did I ever say that.....It does remind me of an old saying though..Quote..live by the sword..die by the sword. Lol

[togor]

Ray watch the Midland vid again. Even with the dashcam audio, it's clear. You can't recognize fear when you see it? Maybe that's the problem, that police aren't adequately trained to handle people who are simply paralyzed with fear by the very presence of law enforcement. I suppose there could be a power trip there, but that's not the kind of cops we want, IMO. One thing you can't say is that if people just follow police instruction, everything will turn out alright. George Floyd is proof of that. Like I tell my kids, let the police mind their business, and you mind yours, and you keep your business out of theirs.

[clintonhater]

Ray they're clearly terrified of being the victims of a police shooting.

Yes, but that's ALL THE MORE reason to give them no justification whatsoever to escalate the situation--assume they're looking for an "excuse," but make sure you don't give it to them!. They may be "terrified," but they're also incredibly stupid to think they can defy a cop's orders even when they're outrageously unreasonable. I'm not terrified, but I'd never dream of arguing with a cop, or ignoring what I was told to do, not because I "respect the police," far from it, but because I know defying a cop is a fight I can't win. The ONLY place to protest what the cops are telling you to do is the courtroom.

[togor]

CH when people start to shut down, and repeating the same instructions in a louder, more menacing way only makes it worse, then it's time for plan B.

Policing requires to a large degree the trust of the public. Lose it and like you put it so well, a traffic stop becomes a 3-alarm cluster.

Cops want to see themselves as the good guys, and so the idea that their very presence strikes fear in the public does not easily fit into their culture or training.

[clintonhater]

CH when people start to shut down, and repeating the same instructions in a louder, more menacing way only makes it worse, then it's time for plan B.

Yes, there ought to be a plan B, & I don't mean calling out the riot squad. But the person who "shuts down" if he sees a red light in his rearview sure as hell isn't mentally competent to be driving, because accidents and/or police encounters are inevitable. When I said I had a perfect driving record, I didn't mean I hadn't been pulled over for some reason or another--that's happened many times, but I've always managed to ass-kiss my way out of a ticket; I take no pride in saying so, but beats the hell out of going to court.

[togor]

Yes, there ought to be a plan B, & I don't mean calling out the riot squad. But the person who "shuts down" if he sees a red light in his rearview sure as hell isn't mentally competent to be driving, because accidents and/or police encounters are inevitable. When I said I had a perfect driving record, I didn't mean I hadn't been pulled over for some reason or another--that's happened many times, but I've always managed to ass-kiss my way out of a ticket; I take no pride in saying so, but beats the hell out of going to court.

Of course, as you know, police are allowed to "shut down" and start shooting the moment they feel afraid. Remember Philando Castile? Falcon Heights is not so far away from Minneapolis, BTW. Expecting terrified civilians to be 100% perfect at the risk of their own life, which is pretty much the current operating standard for most agencies, is not sustainable. Our policing is either going to have to get better or it will get much much worse.