Does anyone really believe Russia will invade Ukraine

[togor]

whatever dude,

keep towing the party line,

My line is my own, and yes I'd rather live in a world where the USA is on good terms with some civilized and reasonable people, with whom we share common values and history. Moreover I'm of the opinion that adversity is where true colors shine through, and I would point out to the anti-China crowd that if we won't stand up to a bully half our size in what is effectively a home game for us, the Chinese will write that fact into their planning faster than we can ask for more duck sauce!

Yours is the RT.com line that has you thrice-baked. Nothing I can do about that! But I will say that line matches Putin's to a tee when he says the USA is a declining power that has lost its resolve. And again in Reagan's day not something a person would brag about.

[lyman]

My line is my own, and yes I'd rather live in a world where the USA is on good terms with some civilized and reasonable people, with whom we share common values and history. Moreover I'm of the opinion that adversity is where true colors shine through, and I would point out to the anti-China crowd that if we won't stand up to a bully half our size in what is effectively a home game for us, the Chinese will write that fact into their planning faster than we can ask for more duck sauce!

Yours is the RT.com line that has you thrice-baked. Nothing I can do about that! But I will say that line matches Putin's to a tee when he says the USA is a declining power that has lost its resolve. And again in Reagan's day not something a person would brag about.

woo hoo,

you are full of yourself tonight,

gonna post a link from Vox next?



not sure why you think we cannot be on good terms with anyone by staying out off their business.....

let NATO handle it, with Euro troops and money, they got plenty of each, and plenty of equipment, (+ what we are selling them)

do you want to send more troops and have another war?


surely the Chinese are watching what we do, but we don't need a two front conflict, and by letting the home team (those that live there) take care of business we can divert resources, if ever needed, to the pacific,



BTW, you should know by now that My Line is not the RT or anyone's line,

unlike yours, you have been a firm D since day one, may want to quit kidding yourself, it's bad for your health

[dryheat]

Putin may have painted himself into a corner.

[Art]

Who knows, Putin's playing chess we're always playing checkers. Right now he has all his options wide open.

I do know he really wants that Mikolaiv Shipyard on the black sea port. Russian yards have limitations that prevent them building really big ships like aircraft carriers. The carriers they built under the Soviets, of which one remains and its laid up, were built there. If they get that yard they're back in the carrier business.

He's playing a dangerous game. Russian Army was instrumental in the last two revolutions, the one that brought in Communism and the one that took it out. Big casualty lists, and/or a serious degradation in the Russian standard of living (which contrary to what you here on the news is pretty darn good) has to be in the back of his mind. The Army in Russia is closer to the people culturally than probably even here. Putin will remember the revolution that ultimately brought him to power. All they have to do is not follow orders and they've done it before.

[RED]

What you are going to see is the current corrupt Ukrainian regime collapse and the new military backed government will allow the Russians to enter without a fight.

[togor]

What you are going to see is the current corrupt Ukrainian regime collapse and the new military backed government will allow the Russians to enter without a fight.

The Trumpworld view. And Putin probably kicking himself that he didn't do this sooner.

[lyman]

Who knows, Putin's playing chess we're always playing checkers. Right now he has all his options wide open.

I do know he really wants that Mikolaiv Shipyard on the black sea port. Russian yards have limitations that prevent them building really big ships like aircraft carriers. The carriers they built under the Soviets, of which one remains and its laid up, were built there. If they get that yard they're back in the carrier business.

He's playing a dangerous game. Russian Army was instrumental in the last two revolutions, the one that brought in Communism and the one that took it out. Big casualty lists, and/or a serious degradation in the Russian standard of living (which contrary to what you here on the news is pretty darn good) has to be in the back of his mind. The Army in Russia is closer to the people culturally than probably even here. Putin will remember the revolution that ultimately brought him to power. All they have to do is not follow orders and they've done it before.

been long enough ago that the folks today don't remember, or don't know about either of those historical events, re the Russian Army,

What you are going to see is the current corrupt Ukrainian regime collapse and the new military backed government will allow the Russians to enter without a fight.

strong possibility, and shamefully our president was part of that corruption,

which explains a few things,

The Trumpworld view. And Putin probably kicking himself that he didn't do this sooner.

not really

[Art]

The Trumpworld view. And Putin probably kicking himself that he didn't do this sooner.

I can't believe you're holding onto that. Trump was tougher on Putin than Obama or Biden who were/are both appeasers. That is a demonstrable fact. Example: Trump put the kabosh on Nordstream II and I'm pretty sure that Putin having Germany under his thumb because Biden gave it to the Rooskies as a "play nice" gift (read that appeasement) has a whole bunch to do with what's going on right now.

Trump really does live in your head, maybe he should because if your side doesn't get its act together you may see a lot more of him......just sayin.'

[lyman]

I can't believe you're holding onto that. Trump was tougher on Putin than Obama or Biden who were/are both appeasers. That is a demonstrable fact. Example: Trump put the kabosh on Nordstream II and I'm pretty sure that Putin having Germany under his thumb because Biden gave it to the Rooskies as a "play nice" gift (read that appeasement) has a whole bunch to do with what's going on right now.

Trump really does live in your head, maybe he should because if your side doesn't get its act together you may see a lot more of him......just sayin.'

remember Art

togor just spouts off the party line,

[togor]

I can't believe you're holding onto that. Trump was tougher on Putin than Obama or Biden who were/are both appeasers. That is a demonstrable fact. Example: Trump put the kabosh on Nordstream II and I'm pretty sure that Putin having Germany under his thumb because Biden gave it to the Rooskies as a "play nice" gift (read that appeasement) has a whole bunch to do with what's going on right now.

Trump really does live in your head, maybe he should because if your side doesn't get its act together you may see a lot more of him......just sayin.'

Not about Ukraine, but rather NATO. Anyone who has been paying attention knows that NATO is a much bigger issue in Russian minds than a few Javelin missiles in Ukrainian hands!

Trump was making the negative case, that the Euros don't pull their weight and the alliance has no purpose because American interests aren't threatened by what happens in Europe. Well the fact of the matter is our standard of living here is very much dependant on stability in both Europe and East Asia. Don't like inflation now? It could get immeasurably worse! Because there are plenty of people in America with more money than you who can afford to outbid you in any supply pinch!

So Trump was basically saying "WTF do we still have NATO for?!" The Biden answer is "for moments like this.". IMO that's a good answer. Russians didn't decide we were pals just because Communism and the SU fell apart. In fact they blame us and have a score to settle. They've made no bones about this so it astonishes me that people won't see it.

Therefore it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out which attitude Putin would prefer to see in an American President, Trump v. Biden. Obama was feckless 2014. On this we can wholeheartedly agree! But Trump's answer, some weapons to Ukraine in exchange for less USA in NATO, is a trade Putin would make any day of the week!

My two cents.

[Art]

After the Soviet Union fell we and the Russians were best buds under Yeltsin, remember? Americans I know who went to Russia back then said the people almost made obeisance to them they were so grateful. It took a lot to screw that up but we did and now we have old Vlad. Vlad was selected to beat the Chechens and make the trains run on time. He did. Before Vlad the average Russian didn't even have clothes that fit. Now just about every Russian has a flat screen TV, an Android or I Phone and well over half own a family car. Until he screws that up he's in.

Anybody who does not believe Putin looks on Biden as the village idiot of the global community is not paying attention and it is no, and I do mean no accident that this is happening under his watch. To Putin Biden is Obama lite. Remember Obama telling Lavrov "Tell Vlad If I'm reelected I'll have a free hand" now that sounds conciliatory doesn't it. And don't forget Hunter profiteering all over the region. If he believed he would have had better results under Trump he would have gone then and that's for certain. He went into the Crimea because he knew Obama didn't have the stomach to do anything substantive, he sure got that one right!!

Finally, there isn't a darn thing NATO can do about this and the EU, to paraphrase T.R. has the backbone of a chocolate eclaire. Do you really believe the Germans are going to "freeze in the dark" for the Ukranians?? It's the Gerries own fault their in this mess but but when the heat doesn't work attitudes shift. You are aware that we import about 12,000,000 - 26,000,000 barrels of crude a month from Vlad, that's about what we import from the Saudis. Think of the effect on gas prices if that goes away. Remember energy independence in 2020???? We were a major exporter then, didn't need Rooskie crude. Vlad knows that too. When they said gasoline could go to $7.00 a gallon because of this mess the reason was the disruption of Russian oil flow....to us.

I didn't just lock in my electric rate for two years on a whim, and I'm glad I live where I can do that.

We have also moved banning Russia from the Swift Banking System off the table. That would have really hurt, maybe we don't want to hurt him too bad.

Don't get me wrong, this could backfire on Putin but the political party line doesn't wash on this one with me.

Sometimes a little research pays, the most important thing I learned in college.

[dryheat]

Stagflation. When's the last time you heard that one?

[togor]

Well Art maybe Putin will tell us in an interview sometime why he didn't try this when Trump was President. I regard it as an opportunity lost for Putin because Trump doesn't "do multilateral", only "bilateral". My hunch it is it has to do with how he ran his business: Tell A one story, tell B the next, C something else, and so on. We know he likes to do that, and in my experience people who operate that way do not want A, B, and C to get in a room and compare notes! Anyways I see Trump as the least likely of souls to rally NATO to a common purpose in an emergency.

By contrast Biden is on these conference calls, pushing for consensus among the NATO partners, and patience to bring it about. He's had some success so far. It remains to be seen if there are teeth behind that facade of unity, but I am certain that a NATO rediscovering its original purpose is not something Putin welcomes.

For us back here, I suppose the question is whose side are we on? I make no secret of being on the side of stable borders in Europe, not decided by bullets. I see a firm NATO with US leadership as the best guarantor of that. There are those in the US who take a different view, who see liberalism as their enemy #1, and Putin as a sympathizer. That I believe is short-sighted. Putin is not their friend, does not wish them well except to the extent that they weaken the resolve of the US and thereby aid HIM in his aims.

On the big stage, one does not always get to choose their tests. NATO is an alliance for collective security of (mostly) democratic countries, of which we are the backbone. Two countries, Russia and China, think our success on the world stage comes at their expense. Russia is testing us now near the NATO frontier, to see if our resolve remains, and China is watching. There really is only one option here, and hopefully everyone wishes Biden well. So far I think he has done much better than a lot of people would have guessed and I don't mind saying that. But the real test has not yet come.

[RED]

What in the Hell does Trump have to do with what I predicted. The Military in Ukraine does not want to commit suicide en masse. I?m thinking they would prefer life under Russia.

What does that have to do with Trump or with something called Trumpworld?

You are so struck with Donald Trump it has become your life. If Donald Trump had a heart attack and died tomorrow, you would not have anything to live for.

JMHO

[rayg]

Red, I wish I would have kept count of the number of times he has mentioned Trump in one of his posts. I estimated a while ago at about a hundred times, Lol