The Sissification of the Service Rifle- time to vent.

[Plain Old Dave]

Getting back in (or at least wanting to) after a prolonged absence, and note to my eternal dismay and disgust that the gamesters (with apologies to COL Cooper) have taken over.

Starting a RF string with an empty chamber and already in position?

15 pound mouseguns?

Wissky Tango Foxtrot?

What in the name of Chesty Puller happened to the most fun you could have on a firing line?

Edit: Checked with the NRA people and apparently they had started granting medical waivers to people that couldn't hack dropping into sitting /prone and so decided to eliminate the Drop. Personally, I hope I would have the grace to retire from a sport I can no longer physically compete in or stay in good enough condition to be able to compete without cheating and changing the rules. Senior citizens regularly run marathons and run all 26-odd miles, so it is absolutely possible to stay in robust enough shape to be able to hack the Drop. HOWEVER, the M1 was not designed to be fed any other way but Condition One or Two. I hope nobody gets M1 Thumb from following this dumb new rule in attempting to load an M1 and keep 'er in Condition Three; IMHO that's a mishap waiting to happen and I fully intend to follow the petition procedures and get this ill-advised change un-done for 2011.

For the time being, though, starting in position should get me enough lead to humiliate the Mousegunners Saturday. Last match I shot at this location was under the old rules with a K31 Schmidt-Rubin and I came in second place (was only beat by an M14).

[Collector497]

Everything started going downhill when they took away our M-1s and they gave us those wussy M-14s.

[Mr. X]

I agree that it's a wimp-out. Part of the whole game should be physical fitness, IMHO. Unfortunately the shooting sports seem to be dominated by old and/or fat guys. It's not often that I see a fit 19-year old buck on the firing line. (Actually a lot of the 19-year olds are pretty fat in our society too).

About 2 years ago on the line during the President's Match at Perry there was an old, thin but out of shape chain-smoking hillbilly on the line with a Garand. Must've been in his 60s. During the prep period for sit rap he tried to get down into a cross-legged position (all slinged up tight) couldn't, and pretty much rolled over backwards with the muzzle pointing behind the line at us and couldn't get back up without the range officer and me helping. The RO as all freaked out that he might do the same thing with a hot rifle, so they let him start in position.

All of this happened right in front of Jim Owens from jarheadtop.com, who was a referee. I suspect that these kind of events prompted the rule change.

[John Kepler]

Getting back in (or at least wanting to) after a prolonged absence, and note to my eternal dismay and disgust that the gamesters (with apologies to COL Cooper) have taken over.

Based on this rant.....that "absence" has to have been measured in DECADES. Most of what you're bitching about has been SOP since the late 1980's!

Starting a RF string with an empty chamber and already in position?

Starting in position is new, and is only the current rules in NRA, not CMP Service Rifle. As for the empty chamber....that's been the rule for at least 30 years for everything but a Garand! You may need to get out a little more!

15 pound mouseguns?

Dude....my XC M14 that I shot in the 80's weighs more than that.....so did yours if you were smart and had a decent barrel! BTW, 15 lbs is light for a competition AR....16-17 is more the norm!

HOWEVER, the M1 was not designed to be fed any other way but Condition One or Two. I hope nobody gets M1 Thumb from following this dumb new rule in attempting to load an M1 and keep 'er in Condition Three;

And just who in serious competition (other than Maury, that is) shoots an M1? 97% of the rifles shooting Service Rifle at the Nationals last year were AR's. In the Games Matches....who cares as long as it's safe! You are demanding a solution that is largely in search of a problem to solve!

IMHO that's a mishap waiting to happen and I fully intend to follow the petition procedures and get this ill-advised change un-done for 2011.

Lotsa luck...and of course the game is completely rigged....but if you don't play, you can't win! So go for it....get your boxers in a bunch....rant to your hearts content! But be advised....bigger dogs than you have already chased that particular rabbit around the woods and gotten nowhere! Don't like it....shoot CMP!

[Mudcat]

I am curious as to who the fat old guys are that are dominating high power! :-)

[Mr. X]

Well, John, I didn't mean dominate the SCORING. I meant dominate bullet buying, gun shows, and trigger pulling. True enough the winners at Perry tend to be fit -- (not coincidentally part of the Army rifle team, too).

Very impressive credentials, I must admit. I regard it as an honor to have beat you in the Garand match last year. [Don't worry, ya beat me in everything else! :-) ]

[Plain Old Dave]

Back in from the match... With a rack grade WRA Dane and part Talon ammo and part Dane ball, I shot a 384-5x. Got shook up midway through the 600 portion and was finalizing a zero on the fly in the early strings. I do take solace in knowing I wasn't in last place. Next match is a CMP fun shoot/practice at 200yd in 2 weeks.

[ballbags]

Everything started going downhill when they took away our M-1s and they gave us those wussy M-14s.

Excuse me, Wussy M14 I have more than 40 and less than 60 M1's ,several M1a/M14
There is absolutely Nothing WUSSY about M14's

[Rodd Knox]

I don't think he is calling the M14 a sissy gun. He's just funnin on how every generation looks back fondly to the Good Ol Days that never were. I remember an old Marine telling me about back in his day the old timers carried on about losing their 1903s and having to carry the ugly a$$ gas operated mess called the M1.

[John Kepler]

Yeah! My Grandpa was one of them!

[tony1950]

Why would you want to deny someone, because of their age, or silght infirmity that they love doing? It never ceases to amaze me in all the shooting sports that I have been involved with in my life, there are always the self appointed experts, professionals, or whatever name you want to give them. I learned more about shooting from " these OLD guys" than anyone. The reason I say this is that for years I helped an OLD FRIEND with his trap shooting. Carried his shotgun while he and his walker moved from station to station. He was 93 when he passed, and I miss those days. Remember that when you try to hold to your youth, and someone tells you NO.

[John Kepler]

I will go along with this sentiment up to the point where it begins to subvert the intent of the sport. NRA has done that and then some. The very best of the "Old Guys" know when the time has come to hang-up the cleats....others demand that we change the nature of the game to accommodate their increasing decrepitude. I admire the former and hold the later in contempt.

[Mr. X]

Tony1950 (if that's your birthdate I understand why you might be sensitive about the "old" thing) this is not intended to insult old guys. I'm not "young" but I'm not "old" either. Aging sucks and I try to stay fit (many don't). My eyes cannot keep up with young bucks -- should I be able to shoot with a scope while they use irons??

The rules of game shouldn't be changed. If you can't keep up with the rules, you get disqualified. That's life. Nobody stays on top of their game forever. Gordie Howe played hockey until he was 50 or something like that, but the didn't change the rules for him. He was just one very tough bastard. If you can do it, then do it. If you can't then shoot benchrest or something.

In a sport that is supposed to approximate combat shooting, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask people to hit the ground from standing before they pull the trigger. If someone can't do something as simple as that, then... they should play checkers.

[carym2a]

Plainly stated , if you cant get down on the deck or any of the four its time to hang it up and let the rest of play with our 03's , M1's and even M14"s Dang dont change the sport cuz somebody got fat and lazy!

[Rodd Knox]

Plainly stated , if you cant get down on the deck or any of the four its time to hang it up and let the rest of play with our 03's , M1's and even M14"s Dang dont change the sport cuz somebody got fat and lazy!

OK no changes for the fat and lazy but where do you stand on the old and arthritic? Fat and lazy can be avoided but we're all on our way to the other other scenerio. Recreational soccer and base ball handle it with Over 30, Over 40 and (imagine) Over 50 leagues where the level of competition slows down and in some instances the rules are changed in consideration of the work hardened hips, knees and ankles. Point is - these people aren't expecting to play the same game as the 20 year olds and most of all not expecting that the rules of the young man's game will change to suit them. They don't take their ball and go home - they just find a different way to compete and have fun. There's got to be ways to keep shooting without expecting the rules to change to let a guy drive his Cadillac up to his position, roll down the window and rest his rifle on the door so he can stay in the game.