4.5 billion emergency funds for migrants

[togor]

I agree, and have been saying that all along,

Here is the flaw in that reasoning.

Climate and civilization are heavily intertwined.

So.

A changing climate means humans and other animals on the move. A stable climate means they settle down and adapt to local conditions.

It couldn't be more simple, or obvious than that!

Saying "I want people to stay put in spite of climate change" is a bit like wishing for a free trip to the moon. You can hope for it but it probably won't happen.

(Note also that Vernon has petroleum money, so he's adapted his beliefs along the lines of his financial interests. I own oil stock but not so much as to ignore the science.)

[lyman]

well, maybe, or not,

the flaw is also you towing the party line,

you are passionate about this and dedicated to the cause,

that may have caused you to have some blinders on , and by not diving deep into the sources you sometimes provide, likely has you on that party line,

I did look into the wine makers keeping records,, found a nice article from 10 yrs ago that basically said the same as the folks to today,

there are no written, documented, reliable records that old

the study I read discussed Wine Making in England (not exactly known to be good grape growing area) and it found, thru extrapolating data since 1370, that there have been good years/decades in that area (as in warm enough for good grape growing) and cold years,

and a lot in the middle,

however, that was all from math, which can be manipulated, (towards either side) not actual data,,,,as in the written word (which, yes, can be manipulated,,,)


whether you, Vern or Jiminy Crickets own oil stock matters not to me, but does show that you know those numbers can be manipulated, maybe you just don't see it?

saying that not as an attack, but as a possibility

[togor]

Lyman,

If stating facts is towing a party line, then you should want to join that party!

Just got back from the local U-pick strawberry place. Has been in business over fifty years. As we were walking to the hut to pay for our bounty, the owner hopped off his ATV to chat. I asked him, "so two words, climate change?". He said, "oh yeah, and anyone who doesn't believe needs to step outside.". And then he ticked off a whole list of changes from new insects to rainfaill patterns that he's dealing with. They got out of U-pick raspberries because they couldn't make it work.

This isn't geologic time. This is sudden change in decades that isn't just a one-off thing.

Here is another example: USDA hardiness zones. Most avid gardners have seen them. Those zones are seeing pressure to change and the pressure is primarily in the S-to-N direction.

This sh*t is happening, and people don't want to believe so they look for any scrap of argument they can find that keeps them in plausible deniability just a little longer, in the hopes that things will turn. It's human nature to do this as surely as it is to take to the road if you're convinced that you can't make it where you are.

[RED]

The warming of the earth, whether by Mother Nature or from human excesses have nothing to do with the invasion of our Southern border, nor the Muslim invasion in Europe. Left wing radicals do. Here, George Soras, the DNC, the radical Nazis and haters are the ones responsible. In Europe it is their comrades, radical Muslims like Al Queada, and ISIS.

Togot has zero honesty, pride, or any moral compass. Hate and strife is all he knows. He would murder his own children, if he thought that would create more hatred and strife in the USA. He is a traitor and I sincerely hope and pray he is awarded the same prize other traitors have received... Julius an Ethel Rosenberg for example.

[oscars]

We moved into our present house over 40 yrs ago. We tried to grow crepe myrtles for the first couple of years but gave up due to winter kill back. Now, everybody in my neighborhood has several crepe myrtles. We have experienced a one full change in our hardiness zone over the past 10:yrs.

[dryheat]

Climate change. Oh, by the way the term Global Warming is OK again these days. Do I believe? Of course I do. I'm not a conspiracy nut in any way shape or form. But I don't care what happened in 1310. I care about now. I care very much about the impact it is having on this country and other countries that are like this country. Nice, productive countries. People are having a tough time in India, Africa and S. America. Probably plenty of other places. To bad. That isn't something new. We can assist. We can send supplies. We can try to mitigate the damage if possible. But people are going to get hurt. That's all part of it. But having entire regions move to other regions is going to get some resistance.

[Vern Humphrey]

Climate change. Oh, by the way the term Global Warming is OK again these days. Do I believe? Of course I do. I'm not a conspiracy nut in any way shape or form. But I don't care what happened in 1310. I care about now. I care very much about the impact it is having on this country and other countries that are like this country. Nice, productive countries. People are having a tough time in India, Africa and S. America. Probably plenty of other places. To bad. That isn't something new. We can assist. We can send supplies. We can try to mitigate the damage if possible. But people are going to get hurt. That's all part of it. But having entire regions move to other regions is going to get some resistance.

They aren't coming here because of "Global Warming." They're coming here because we are so generous with welfare.

Some people say they are such an asset to this country. If that's true, why don't they stay home and be assets to their own country?

[dryheat]

Hammers and shovels are assets but don't expect any smart conversation.

[togor]

But people are going to get hurt. That's all part of it. But having entire regions move to other regions is going to get some resistance.

Of course it is. And that resistance can be applied with intelligence or willfully blind stupidity. Which is more likely to productive in the long run for dealing with the problems?

Something I ask the climate deniers: what would it take for you to change your mind? What sort of event on the news, or in your personal life would make you go, "OK, something is happening. I see it now?" Truth is, most everyone who is going to get there is already there. The holdouts are either so invested in the status quo that they'll go down with it or the topic is just to big for them. Either way, life like that must have a lot of frustrations to it.

[1563621]

When I worked at a local welfare office, mamacita would come in with her 10 or 12 bambinos and say paco went back to mexice. And we give her 4K in snap with free phone, housing, cash and healthcare!!! Saw it happen too many times to count! Send them all back.

[Allen]

When I worked at a local welfare office, mamacita would come in with her 10 or 12 bambinos and say paco went back to mexice. And we give her 4K in snap with free phone, housing, cash and healthcare!!! Saw it happen too many times to count! Send them all back.

And kill THIS program. No wall needed then.

[Vern Humphrey]

I have always said the wall isn't the answer -- as long as we put out bait, they will come. If we stop putting out the bait, they'll stop coming.

[S.A. Boggs]

I have always said the wall isn't the answer -- as long as we put out bait, they will come. If we stop putting out the bait, they'll stop coming.

+1
Sam

[clintonhater]

I have always said the wall isn't the answer -- as long as we put out bait, they will come. If we stop putting out the bait, they'll stop coming.

Problem is, as long as there are jobs too miserable for most US citizens to accept, like packing-house work, roofing, etc., the bait will remain. That being an unalterable fact of life in this country, a wall, or other deterrent, is at least part of the answer.

[Allen]

Problem is, as long as there are jobs too miserable for most US citizens to accept, like packing-house work, roofing, etc., the bait will remain. That being an unalterable fact of life in this country, a wall, or other deterrent, is at least part of the answer.

But if welfare was eliminated those miserable jobs would be in high demand. No need for green cards or visa's ever again. The concept of "if you don't work you don't eat" that worked so well from the beginning of time till destroyed by LBJ's "great society" would be back in place.

Having a wall is fine too. We need more than just a line in the sand but the wall needs to be more effective. The razor wire should be on the top at all places and also at the ground level on the Mexico side. No one should be able to cross over or get anywhere near it and w/o welfare why would they want too?