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Multiple topics are fair game, especially if they help illuminate some underlying principle. If you recall, the idea is that we should leave the crappy neighborhoods of Chicago to their gun-invested fate, but somehow see those suffering in the pill-ridden folds of Appalachia as noble victims. It stands to reason that both regions will need outside help to get a handle on their problems. That's the connection between the two. The next step for someone, I suppose, is to invent a reason why the one group is deserving of outside help while the other isn't. CH would leave both regions to their fate. Cold-hearted perhaps, but at least logically consistent.
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That's good, coming from some "guy" who whines because "he" can't get his "bottle" right Pebbles? Still whining about leaving "Jolly Ole' England?" @ least Vern and I know what death fear is, putting someone you now in a body bag, sitting there shaking after it is all over, not "fear" of not having a bottle to crawl back into!
SamComment
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nope,
not sure of your background,
however,
I was born in the city, and spent a good part of my childhood in the country ,
worked retail in high end neighborhoods, middle class and the hood,
hood life, whatever the reason, is hood life,
it was rare to meet anyone in the hood that had any desire to get out, get off the gov't teat, and apply themselves,
the basic mantra was 'what are you going to give me today'
even the churches in the hood had classes set up,
not to help get jobs, improve living conditions etc, but to teach the members how to milk the system
another store I was in was on the border,
the immediate area was high class, not all rich but most well off,
their kids did not work, at least not retail,
we hired the kids from the next county over, mostly country folk, none of their folks were well to do,
they worked, wanted to work, for their paycheck and were glad to get it,
back to the country folk,
and help
there is not as much help for them, or at least not in the area my folks are from, as there is in the city,
the counties do not have the resources the bigger cities do,
most of the industry left (NAFTA and cheaper oversees labor) and little came in to replace it,
farming is tough, not everyone has the land or can be hired to work it,
my grandfather was a farmer all his life, when he passed my grandmother suffered to make ends meet with his SSI, (she never officially worked, as in a paying job) too busy helping on the farm, and raising kids (5),
so Mom drove her to town to see if she could get food stamps,
they offered her $17 a month,,,,,
even then that was less than a bag of cheap groceries, not enough to live off of each month.
meanwhile, back in the city, folks get much more,
why?? likely due to the amount of money the city has to spend, vs the countyComment
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So in other words, Lyman, your generalization, reinforced by your personal experience, is that city folks who come up short are undeserving, but country folk, the real salt of the earth, are worthy of a leg up if they need one. That's highly subjective, you do realize. I get why you don't like the parallel--the last thing Appalachians want is to be compared to poor blacks. But to those of us without a strong link to either community, there are similarities. Not the least of which is how politicians (and pretty much everyone else) like to exploit both of these groups for gain, if they can figure out a way.
...a humorous (and basically good-hearted) SNL skit on the subject.
Last edited by togor; 07-22-2019, 02:00.Comment
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Telling the public that it's OK to be weak, OK to be irresponsible, OK to blame self-inflicted problems on anyone but themselves, is a sure-fire recipe to create more of the same irresponsible weaklings who view themselves as helpless, hapless, victims of the injustices of life...which there are plenty of, to be sure, without adding to the unavoidable ones, like disease (REAL disease, not personality problems), accidents, aging, etc.Comment
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I don't judge if they are deserving or not, it's not my place, and was bad for business when I worked in that area,So in other words, Lyman, your generalization, reinforced by your personal experience, is that city folks who come up short are undeserving, but country folk, the real salt of the earth, are worthy of a leg up if they need one. That's highly subjective, you do realize. I get why you don't like the parallel--the last thing Appalachians want is to be compared to poor blacks. But to those of us without a strong link to either community, there are similarities. Not the least of which is how politicians (and pretty much everyone else) like to exploit both of these groups for gain, if they can figure out a way.
...a humorous (and basically good-hearted) SNL skit on the subject.
I have simply observed that most country folk work for a dollar, when they can,
whilst most folks in the hood, look for someone to give them that dollar,
it's culture, and despite your implications of race, in the country, or at least where my mother is from, folks work together, much more so than city folk doComment
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The comment about some people being more comfortable with hand-outs than others is something that I too have seen with my own eyes. Where does it come from? History has something to do with it, probably, in some way that I'm not going try to fathom. My attitude is one can politely say "no" and keep taking care of business without getting bent out of shape about it. Plenty of poor folks everywhere work long and hard. Hey, good exchange.Last edited by togor; 07-22-2019, 05:23.Comment
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I think Welfare had a lot to do with it,
a generation or 2 (maybe more) raised to expect a handout,
I watched a young girl years ago, use her EBT card for the first time,
not sure why she had one, but her mother , and grandmother, were there to show her how, and were proud of her for having one,,,
that memory has always stayed with me, seemed odd, I and my staff working hard to make a living, provide for others, and someone else proud to use the handout,, like it was a trophy,,Comment
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It is a "trophy" to the entitled as much as free phones, medical care, transportation, Section 8 housing and all the other goodies of their life on the government plantation. Work is a four letter word to them, something to be avoided. I realize that some people can't work due to mental/physical conditions. Emotionally unable to work is a crutch that society gives out to lazy people as an excuse not to. I constantly butted heads with "counselors" who used this ruse and had to account for my reasoning each time. Welfare/counseling is a big business that needs to be cut back. I have seen counseling help/hold back people as well as the use of welfare. Too many well meaning people are helping those who don't need help, yet are conditioned to have a need.
Had a welfare client who in his "free" time burgled as a "hobby" and got caught. Since it was his first offense he was put on parole with "mental" health ordered. Because he is a criminal I got him so I "suggested" he find a job which he refused. His reasoning was that he would lose his "benefits" so no work. I talked it over with his parole officer who agreed with me and ordered him to find a job. He couldn't find a job, so I found him one walking a paper route. @ 35 he felt that is was below his "dignity", prison was the other option. He found himself a better job that paid more money and went to work. Suddenly he liked making more money then the government benefits, got his own car and could do for self. Last I heard he was long from parole having completed it, switched to a better paying job and became a tax payer instead of a tax user.
Our Church helps those who help themselves, not give to those who won't.
SamComment
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Welfare is, in some segments of society, an economic strategy -- young girls get pregnant in order to get welfare. The result is a high-school dropout living in a subsidized apartment with a baby and welfare. That gets boring, so party time! That's the source of a lot of our problems -- and we created them with our eyes open. Daniel Patrick Moynihan saw it coming and wrote reports about it when he was still a bureaucrat, before he became a senator. And we did it anyway.Comment
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With the new "budget" one has to ask, "how long" before the inevitable happens. Many who ride the dole are going to "demand" that government do "something" and what can government do? Past experience shows what happens in larger cities, I suspect the same will happen.
I truly feel sorry for those who live in cities/towns where government supplies household utilities and the 9 meals from anarchy situation. No society like ours can continue to burn both ends of the candle and not expect them to meet in the middle.
SamComment
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