WWI Sniper Scope Cases

[cplnorton]

It appears to me that all Brophy is doing is confirming the source of the 6-loop cases as being post-war, and nothing else. Besides that, what do post-war shooting teams have to do with the subject at hand?

jt

If you seriously read Brophy's statement above and came out of it with the 6 loop case is post war Commercial? I'm at a loss for words.

Brophy page 507. This is as clear as it gets, I don't know how to make it any clearer.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

Steve,
First of all, I don't see the word "commercial" in my post, and you failed to point out what I added to the document as you claimed in your last post. Secondly, you need to take a course in reading and comprehension. I have been aware of that excerpt from Brophy for many years, but it has NOTHING to do with the Corps order for scope cases at the beginning of WWI. NOTHING.

I told you a long time ago that you need to read and comprehend the documents you are pulling. If you think that order does not indicate the case and cap have a combined total of 8-loops, you need to take a break.

You have begun to resort to insults in your responses, which is usually an indicator of desperation. This is a forum of people who have an interest in sniper rifles, and typically we discuss matters in a civil manner. We may disagree, and often do; but insults are uncalled for, serve no useful purpose, nor further understanding of the issues at hand. Rudeness is a weak imitation of strength.

Jim

[cplnorton]

Jim,

I don't think I am reading anything wrong, and if you think otherwise that is ok. But I don't think many reasonable people would read that or the Brophy Comments and come to the same conclusion that you are stating as Proof Positive.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

"Proof Positive"? One thing I have learned, and so will you, is there is no "Proof Positive" when it comes to history, only opinions bolstered by evidence of differing types. Each man must weigh the evidence and judge for himself. You are the one who made the claim that the order in question proved"without a doubt" that 6-loop cases were ordered. Instead, it indicates 8-loop scope cases were ordered. But you were careful not to post a copy of it, and I suspected there was a very good reason. One of the experts you hold in high regard sent that order to me. He doesn't believe your position is tenable either.

There is more to come, folks.

Jim

[Roadkingtrax]

Jim, please post the document.

Otherwise, why keep going on about it?

[cplnorton]

But you were careful not to post a copy of it, and I suspected there was a very good reason. One of the experts you hold in high regard sent that order to me. He doesn't believe your position is tenable either.

There is more to come, folks.

Jim

Oh yeah Jim, I had no doubt you were quoting from MY document, that I found. I knew instantly that you didn't find that document, because if you actually found it, you would know about the companion document that goes with it, that was found next to it. And you would not be making many of the claims that are you making.

I shared only the one leather case document, that you quoted that you found, with many people, including many of the people who have posted on this discussion. But I am pretty sure I know exaclty who gave it to you. And I can guarantee they will never get anything else from me again. I also have been told by other experts that they gave you a few documents I found, but they did so not knowning, so I don't blame them.

This is why I only SHARE my good stuff with people I trust, because of reasons just like this.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

Good Lord, Norton. Tell me you didn't write that post. You have let a simple disagreement evolve into something really nasty. You are going to "punish" forum members? None of this is worth that, my man. None of it. I consider the forum members to be friends and fellow companions, and I would help anyone who ask for it, as you did. I still have around fifty or sixty emails from you where you were asking for help, and I always gave it freely. This isn't a contest to hide information.

It is sad that you had the opportunity to help members, who for whatever reason, cannot go to the archives nor afford to pay someone to pull documents for them. Instead, you intend to "punish" them by withholding documents that are actually public information.

What does "...they did so not knowing...." mean? Not knowing what? I thought that business of you telling my Cody researcher that the documents I wanted were not at Cody was strange, but now I am having a sinking feeling there is more to this than I ever suspected. I was amazed that a researcher could spend $1000 worth of time going through indexed boxes and come back and tell me there were no documents on A5's, the USMC, sniper rifles, or WWI when the index clearly shows they exist. To be honest, I don't want to know. Keep it to yourself. I'll eat the $1000 and call it an education in humanity.

If any of you forum members find this as disturbing as I do, I apologize for my part in this whole mess. I have long been reluctant to publish all I have because I didn't want to provide information that would lead to even more fakes of probably the most faked rifle of all. I see now i was like a kid with all the marbles - there was no one else to play with. I am now writing a brief synopsis of what I have found, and if I can find a suitable path, will publish on this forum. Each of you can then judge for yourself.

Jim

[cplnorton]

Jim, that is not true at all. I post documents and research all the time on this forum for people. And most of it, has cost me a considerable amount of money to figure out. I told you before you even tried to retrace my steps, that is a journey you didn't want to go down. I even gave you some of it for free, even though you would never admit that I did that publically. But you chose to try to retrace my steps. So you can say I didn't warn you, or I didn't tell you the truth about where I found stuff, but that is totally false.

I help people everday in private email on whatever topic they are researching. I've freely give out documents that I have acquired on my own. But the ones that were found on a group effort, or someone gave to me. I make sure to give them credit or ask their permission first. Because I know how much I have spent in time and money on mine. So I give the same common courtesy to them.

Jim, you can make any claims of anything you want on here. But to try to claim that I don't help people or I'm lying about stuff, that is total utter garbage.

I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who has asked me for help, that I didn't go out of my way to help.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

....I told you before you even tried to retrace my steps, that is a journey you didn't want to go down....

I have been doing this for many years, long before you got into it. I still have all the emails. I had no intention, nor did I say, that I wanted to retrace your path. I simply wanted specific documents, offered to pay you for them, and you refused, claiming there was a copyright issue with Cody. I can post those emails if you need to refresh your memory.

I even gave you some of it for free, even though you would never admit that I did that publically.

No you did not. Produce the email. The only thing you ever sent me was the FBI report.

But you chose to try to retrace my steps. So you can say I didn't warn you, or I didn't tell you the truth about where I found stuff, but that is totally false.

You were unwilling to share the documents, even though I offered to pay you for them. I decided to hire a researcher, and asked you for the name of yours. You refused to give me that name. I realized at that point that you had no intention of aiding me in my search. I hired my researcher and that debacle ensued. If you infer I am lying, I will post the entire series of emails.

I have never said you didn't tell me the truth about where you found stuff. I don't remember asking. Our discussions at the time were about Cody, so I assumed Cody was the source.

Jim, you can make any claims of anything you want on here. But to try to claim that I don't help people or I'm lying about stuff, that is total utter garbage.

I don't know whom you have helped, but I do know how you repaid me after I helped you. If you help people - great. That is what this forum is for.

I can back up every statement I have made. You might want to reread the series of emails before you press this issue too far. My previous posts were about the posts that you made today - they were your statements. I added nothing.

If you are going to further this debacle, I suggest we take it off forum. You have my email and I have yours. Jouster doesn't need to lose bandwidth on petty nonsense. Discussing how many straps is on a Corps scope case is one thing, this kind of nonsense needs to be between the two of us. If you have something to say about scope cases, I'll respond. Otherwise, I will refrain from posting unless your statements get too egregious or personal.

This thread began by my asking if anyone could produce a WWI Corps/sniper connected 6-loop scope case. It appears no one can. Let us leave it at that.

Jim

[cplnorton]

There are two sides to every story, and that one is yours. I do archive all my emails, and have went back and read them several times.

I do fully agree with one thing you have said though, this is beating a dead horse. There is more than enough info for the anyone to read and make their own conclusions.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

Outstanding. Let's move on.

Jim

[Jeff L]

I think we're done here.